From: "Richard Bullock" <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:06:09 -0600
Subject: Re: PED: Extreme embouchures

After I started playing, again, after a 21 year break, I tried to re-establish the embouchure I had previously developed.  I remember it was comfortable, easy to control, and I could play with it for hours on end. But I just coudn't quite get it, again.

I started lurking on the TPIN, made a few phone calls to discuss theory and mechanics, then made a few subtle changes.  It improved many aspects of my playing, naturally with a few short-term sacrifices.  What I was using was a separation of the lips, equally, even to the point of "playing on the red".  Maybe I went too far.  I could not seem to manage a quick, soft response from the get go-after I got the air moving, response seemed to come back.

Now that I've moved to a different area of the U.S., I've gotten a private instructor, who has made some different changes.  It sure has been a pain to start over, again, again (not a typo).  I have been playing with equal amounts of lip in the mpc, no gap, no smiling, no pressure, without rolling or protruding the lips.  I have been frustrated trying to get back good tone, endurance, flexibility, range, and everything else I remember so fondly.  But then again, I've been so busy doing other things (music is not my primary source of income), I now realize I'm finally getting what I
was looking (listening) for, after about three months of sporadically working on this.  Could've been only a month if I'd been able to be more dedicated.

Point is:
I do, now, use equal amount of lips.  But I'm not a lead or solo jazz player.  I expect more range as I continue to work at this. I am, however, rapidly getting closer to being able to play lead in a classical sense, again.  It won't be long.

I feel like I've babbled enough.

On 12 Jul 97, Ole J. Utnes wrote:

> I've just reread Phil. Farkas great book "The Art of Brass Playing" and I agree
> with Tim Swensen that: "The book's pictures are worth more than the text to me."
> >From time to time there has been some discussion on TPIN on the subject we
> could call extreme embouchures (double embouchure e.g. etc.)
> My fellow norwegian trumpet player, Rune (also on TPIN) and I have been
> discussing this subject for a while and Rune has put up some comments on his webpage at:
> let me quote some of Rune's point, that relate to Farkas discussion:
> <start quote>
> Protruding lips
> ---------------
> I think this is what the Maggio method is about. This is the lip position I use
> for pedals. I have not yet been very successful in keeping this configuration through my range. One successful > player using this embouchure is Walt Johnson.
> Equally positioned lips
> ----------------------
> This is the configuration that most classical trumpet players use. It will not
> give you an extreme range. Using this lip position, my range decreases to around high C.
> Rolled in lips
> -------------
> Many successful players roll in both lips over the teeth playing high notes.
> Some players are : Bill Chase, Clyde Hunt, Chase Sandborn. I don't feel comfortable playing this way, as the
> embouchure feels very unnatural.
<end quote>
> From pictures in the Farkas book, you will see that all players (trumpet, horn,
> trombone and tuba) have the "equally position lip" setting. But all players are/where symphonic
> players...
> - Do any of you think that lead-players have other settings (more extreme)?
> - Is it correct (MachBeth) to interpret the "Maggio Embouchure" as a protruding setting ?
> - Do some of you play with rolled in lips (Chase Sandborn, Clyde Hunt) ?
> Ole
> --
> Ole Jorgen Utnes   -   "Oulee the Gentle Viking"

Richard Bullock