Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:02:29 -0400
Subject: Re: PED: Different embouchures-was extreme embouchres

Rune Aleksandersen wrote:
> Hello all,
>I think the reason for few replies, is that so very few know much
>regarding  this subject. Extreme embouchures was previously discussed on TPIN, and many
>trumpeters said they avoided the extreme embouchure settings.
>Not because the embouchures did not work, but because the opinion says:
>"it is wrong to play with an extreme embouchure."


Hello Tim, Rune, Ole, and interested parties!

Several weeks ago there was considerable discussion, on the TPIN, about "double embouchures" and the like. Let's pursue:

CENTRAL to understanding the concepts of "Seven C'S...", is the idea that "we must learn to ADJUST the embouchure, WHILE PLAYING, in order to FOCUS precisely on each tone!" EACH and EVERY tone has an optimal placement for maximum tone, pitch, and resonance.

Unfortunately, most trumpet playing situations do not allow us the luxury of re-setting, optimally, for each new tone. Adjusting the embouchure while playing (read flexibility) is what playing a brass instrument is all about.

NOW - NOMENCLATURE problems arise.

It is the "rolling-in" (compressing, "bunching",) of the embouchure which enables us to "raise" the pitch of the vibrating lip(s) WITHOUT squashing the lips between the teeth and the mouthpiece!  I think of it as "compressing" the aperture, as opposed to "stretching" it.

Go to a mirror and "Buzz" high C (No Mouthpiece).  How much of the "red" of your lips do you see? How much mouthpiece pressure are you using? How would you describe "what you see"?

 I DO NOT play "with my lips 'rolled-in' over my teeth" - ALL THE TIME!
 But I believe this to be the case for (c.) F above High C and UP! If this is declared to be an EXTREME lipsetting (feels unnatural?), I would respectfully suggest to you that playing in the octave from F3 (above high C) to an octave above (F4), is by definition extreme. Perhaps extreme "means" are in order!?!

To RECAP - Every note has a best, or ideal, lips/tongue/mouth cavity "position". (We call this the FOCUS.)  Our job as a trumpeter, is to be able to SM-O-O-TH-LY adjust our embouchure in order to be in the right place, for the desired tone, with the right tone quality, at the right time.

This will vary from "rolled-out"(forward and relaxed) for the pedals to "rolled-in" (firmly compressed) for the stratosphere. The playing of two and three octave chromatic scales is excellent for developing this feeling of the "lips following the melodic line".

We do NOT have to stop and re-adjust along the way. (A sliding FOCUS if you will.) My INITIAL FOCUS will vary, depending upon the tessitura of the phrase I am about to play.
Learning to "integrate" all of our (infinite number of) embouchures, within a SINGLE BLOW, will enable us to play accurately, and consistently, over a very wide range.
Anyhow, I hope this sheds some light upon your questions/observations.

Keep 'Em Flying!

Rolled in lips
- -------------
Many successful players roll in both lips over the teeth playing high notes.
Some players are : Bill Chase, Clyde Hunt, Chase Sandborn.
I don't feel comfortable playing this way, as the embouchure feels very unnatural.
<end quote>

>From pictures in the Farkas book, you will see that all players (trumpet, horn,
>trombone and tuba) have the "equally position lip" setting. But all players are/where symphonic

- - Do any of you think that lead-players have other settings (more extreme)?
- - Is it correct (MachBeth) to interpret the "Maggio Embouchure" as a protruding setting ?
- - Do some of you play with rolled in lips (Chase Sandborn, Clyde Hunt) ?

> Every player must find out what works for him, and therefore needs to
> experiment. Otherwise, chances are that the most ideal setting will
> never be found. (Many of the top players have unusual embouchures.)
> When changing your embouchure, it is important to know your
> current set. Making a change that does not work, you have to know how
> to return to your old setting.
> Please read about my experiences with my embouchure change at:
> (I will appreciate comments)
> Thanks,
> Rune Aleksandersen
> > Once more on embouchure.
> > Last time on the subject "Extreme embouchure" only one reply -
> > maybe due to the Driscoll/religion tread (?)
> >
> > There has been some posts on two different systems lately:
> > 1. Maggio/MacBeth
> > 2. Screamin (Carmichael).
> >
> > As far as I can see, these are two opposite system when it comes to embouchure
> > setting.
> >
> > - Maggio: 2/3 upper lips, lower lip slightly under top lip, buzz down
> > - Carmichael: 50/50, say "hmmm" to form embouchure, support with lower lip,
> > push lower lip forward when ascending.
> >
> > Both system has a focus on developing the high register.
> >
> > Any comment ?
> >
> > Ole
> > --